Lithuania's President Gitanas Nauseda discussed with VOA's Eastern Europe Director Myroslava Gongadze in Vilnius on Tuesday about the country's challenges caused by Russia's invasion of Ukraine earlier this year. .
"Democracy and the world order are at stake in that war," Nauseda told his VOA. "Vladimir Putin's appetite knows no bounds. I don't know who his next target will be: the Baltics, Poland, maybe Romania." Edited.
VOA: Thank you for your time. You went to Ukraine on February 23rd before the war. Did you at that moment understand that Ukrainians are in danger? Also, did you expect war to break out soon?
Gitanas Nauseda, President of Lithuania: As you know, this threat was in the air. And the [Ukrainian] President [Volodymyr] Zelensky said he expects the war to collapse in, uh, the next 24 to 48 hours. And let's say, after 8 or 10 hours, we left Ukrainian soil. Yes, the war was terrible, and perhaps our Ukrainian partners could not imagine that this war would be organized. , attacked Kyiv, and the war also collapsed in other parts of Ukraine. Fortunately, this war turned out to be much longer than Russia could have expected. Yes, of course, we understand that it will cause many casualties, human lives will be endangered and, of course, public infrastructure will be destroyed. But this is not only a fight for Ukrainian democracy and Ukrainian territorial integrity, but also for democratic values. Ukraine is fighting very valiantly not only for its freedom, but also for ours.
VOA: What do you think Russia is doing? [Russian President Vladimir] What is Putin's aim?
Nauseda: I think Putin miscalculated this war scenario. The expectations were completely different. Putin expected them to capture the Ukrainian capital Kyiv within days and the war would not have much political or economic impact on Russia. But it turned out to be something completely different. And it is very important to mention that until the beginning of the war, the reaction of European politicians and other countries was also, if it can be described in this way, suppressed. Russia's attempt is so frightening, its ambition to conquer Ukraine. And then, in the first days of the war, I saw a very different attitude from my colleagues in the European Union with a huge commitment to act and do something to stop the war first and foremost. Unfortunately, it did not happen, but I realized that much more had to be done to bring about war, yes, to have very definite consequences for Russia in the first place. rice field. result. Hence the first package of sanctions, the second, the third, the fifth. And now it turns out that European politicians and the countries of the European Union are well aware of what the threat posed by the Russian authorities is. It was not, as I remember discussions at the European Council, bilateral meetings. We try to persuade our partner. …
VOA: Who are we? Who are we when you say us Because I understand your country, Poland, and other countries.
Nauseda: … Poland, Romania and all Eastern European countries are very directly exposed to these threats.
VOA: And Western European countries were really unaware and underestimated. …
Nauseda: That may be so in theory, but the actual reaction falls short of the rhetoric that President Putin has allowed himself to express all this time. . This is why I think it is so important to understand that Europe is different. Europe understands the threat better. Of course, Europe is still dependent in many areas. For example, energy dependence. Still, this is a very hot issue. This is not my country's problem. Lithuania has implemented all the necessary changes, changed its infrastructure, created infrastructure and spent a lot of money to become independent in the energy sector. And now we can say that Lithuania is not dependent. Lithuania stopped buying Russian oil, Russian gas, Russian electricity, so they can't do anything for us in this regard.
VOA: This dependence on energy resources has been built over the past two decades, especially with Germany, France and other countries. What do you think has convinced Western European politicians to underestimate the Russian threat so much?
Nauseda: First of all, we cannot deny the assumption that there are economic benefits. Money, profit, cheap energy resources, business potential. But another reason was the assumption that in Moscow you would have to deal with a completely different kind of policy and politicians. I sometimes think that my colleagues probably think Putin is a little different, but I can negotiate, so I can do business with him. we can talk We can try to convince them to bring our point forward. And he could not understand that an argument would do him no good. As they say in Moscow, they are trying to rebuild the empire. They are trying to somehow restore the Soviet Union. And, as you mentioned, you remember Putin saying the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest disaster of the 20th century. And now they are going to rebuild the Soviet Union quite logically as a result, but this is not the only risk and threat to Ukraine. This means it's a big threat to all of us, and this time, perhaps even to Western European countries that aren't part of the former Soviet Union.
VOA: Your country was part of the Soviet Union. Do you feel safe in your country in this environment? And do you think NATO, NATO's allies will come to your full protection? How prepared are you for threats?
Nauseda: My answer is very simple. In 2004 Lithuania became a member of her two very important organizations, the European Union and NATO, so we feel she is safer than she was in 2004. I say this word often. I have repeated this phrase many times. The European Union was for a better life, NATO was for life. This is still valid and very important. Yes, we strongly believe in Article 5 and the peace of mind of our partners to protect every inch of our soil. However, this does not mean that additional efforts cannot be made to improve security. The country has done a lot to modernize its armed forces, modernize its military strength, and improve its infrastructure so that it can accommodate additional forces from its NATO allies. and increased military spending to her 2.5% of GDP. And we are ready to provide even more financial resources to meet all the requirements, which are sufficient for the current situation, the geopolitical situation. It is very important to mention that Lithuania feels safe but we have to be aware of these risks as we have to deal with a very dangerous neighbor and the best evidence is Ukraine is the situation.
VOA: What's going on in Ukraine today?
Nauseda: Democracy, world order. It is very important to mention that the international security situation is at stake and, of course, Vladimir Putin's appetite knows no bounds. If they succeed in Ukraine, they will also come to our door. We don't know who their next target will be. It may be the Baltics, Poland, Romania, but this is not the most important issue. The most important question is what must be done NATO-style, EU-style to stop Putin. Putin, as he says, must complete the operation in Ukraine. And I sincerely hope that Ukraine will succeed. We will stand with Ukraine until victory, of course Ukraine wins. And today there are many assurances from the leaders of Western Europe and other world leaders that they are ready to provide military support to Ukraine. The European Union has imposed sanctions and is strongly committed to continuing its sanctions policy in the future. So far we have done a lot, so this is very important, but not enough to stop Putin. And we have to recognize and understand that. For short-term military aid, this is perhaps the most important issue. In the long term, there will be very important issues related to humanitarian assistance, macroeconomic assistance, etc. But now they are well aware that their conflicts will be resolved instead of sitting at the negotiating table. Conflicts are resolved on the battlefield.
VOA: I would like to ask about the role of the United States. Because I was warning Ukraine. Prewar. Do you think the US is doing enough in this fight? And who do you think is the leader of this move to stop Putin in the region.
Nauseda: I think the US should be the leader, but in reality the US is the leader who provides military and political support, which is very important. . This is very important, but of course the speed of decision-making, the commitment to provide more help, and. Speed is probably the most important issue right now. Yes, we are talking about additional military equipment, deadly weapons and other equipment. But this is very important that Ukrainians need it today, not tomorrow or tomorrow. And as I mentioned, every day it brings a lot of casualties, people are suffering, destroyed cities and so on. Of course, we have to stop it as soon as possible. The role of the United States in this is important. The European Union also plays a very important role, but I think we have to work together. we must be more united. The United States, the European Union and like-minded countries in Asia are now showing solidarity. I see this solidarity and they saw their solidarity at the NATO Summit in Madrid. So we made a very important decision, a bold decision to strengthen NATO. Defining Russia as a long-term threat was also a very important factor in the conclusions of the Madrid summit, a very important decision for our country and the Eastern European region to mention. European region. Also, brigade-sized, -level support and military presence in my country. As you know, Germany is the main country in her EFP [Enhanced Forward Protection]. And this is very important for our people, especially probably our people, to hear that our allies are ready to provide additional assistance to Lithuania.
VOA: We have already confirmed that Russia is breaking international law and pushing all boundaries and rules. However, Russia is still a member of the UN Security Council. Russia has veto powers in the OECD [Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development] organization and many others. do you think you should do something with it?
Nauseda: Unfortunately, this is why we must find additional or alternative forms to deal with Russia. Because you are the UN Security Council. Russia can create many obstacles [there]. …and this is why you have to find other formats. I still believe in the importance of the United Nations in other areas. For example, providing a route for grain exports to third countries, trying to solve the problem, the Secretary-General [Antonio Guterres] has made great efforts to solve this. Perhaps in such a form, the United Nations will be a very effective means of providing additional assistance to Ukraine. But we have to find other formats too. Bilateral formats are also important. You mentioned the European Union and NATO, but for bilateral assistance it was Germany, France, the United States and even smaller countries. This bilateral assistance is very important and I heard about it from President Zelensky during my last visit to Kyiv. This visit, as you know, is the first time Ukraine celebrates its National Day. It was very important for me to be able to participate in this event in Kyiv. I gave a speech in his Verkhovna Rada [parliament] and President Zelensky told me that Lithuania will do a lot and will probably be a good example for other countries. By giving Ukraine the help it needs, they will be able to deliver and will be even more effective. But we are strongly committed, and this is not only the opinion and commitment of our political elite, but the commitment of all, or almost all, people in Lithuania.
VOA: You are devoted, Poland is devoted. Germany is reluctant. How do you think you are trying and being successful in persuading other countries to do more?
Nauseda: Some may be skeptical of Germany's attitude and position in recent months, but I see great progress. I couldn't, so I can compare this situation to what it was a few months ago. Germany, for example, was reluctant, really reluctant to provide Ukraine with all kinds of lethal weapons. Not now. We're talking about decision speed now, and that's a big step forward. And I think we see this shift in our thinking. The change in thinking is also remarkable, and I think this is also our contribution. We are talking and trying to establish the necessary dialogue with our German colleagues. I think they are responding to public opinion as well, because public opinion is also very clear. I remember visiting Berlin at the end of February. Two days after Russia invaded Ukraine, she had the opportunity to attend a conference against the war in Ukraine on February 26. I got home and heard that the next day [February 27] there was a meeting [in Germany she had 100,000 protesting and on Saturday he might have had 500]. It is very important that people understand that they have to do this. Germany is, after all, not free from the threats imposed or posed by Russia. Germany is also a target. Like Lithuania, Romania or any other country in Eastern Europe.
VOA: How do you see the end of this war?
Nauseda: I don't think there is any other option. We must do everything in our power to lead Ukraine to victory in this war. For Ukraine itself, Lithuania and the entire democratic world.